Or so I've been told. I am oblivious to such things. There is no joy in my life. Allow me to share my misery ...
The following poem is taken from Modern Love, a poetic sequence by the British writer George Meredith. Please read the poem and share your thoughts as comments. Remember to post at least twice, once in response to my queries and again in response to your classmates. Consider the following questions ...
- What is the concept of modern love as offered in the poem?
- How does this concept of love compare with your own?
- Are there any images in the poem that seem strange? ... why are they strange?
- What might be the significance of the words that are capitalized?
from Modern Love
By this he knew she wept with waking eyes:
That, at his hand's light quiver by her head,
The strange low sobs that shook their common bed
Were called into her with a sharp surprise,
And strangled mute, like little gaping snakes,
Dreadfully venomous to him. She lay
Stone-still, and the long darkness flowed away
With muffled pulses. Then, as midnight makes
Her giant heart of Memory and Tears
Drink the pale drug of silence, and so beat
Sleep's heavy measure, they from head to feet
Were moveless, looking through their dead black years,
By vain regret scrawled over the blank wall.
Like sculptured effigies they might be seen
Upon their marriage-tomb, the sword between;
Each wishing for the sword that severs all.
That, at his hand's light quiver by her head,
The strange low sobs that shook their common bed
Were called into her with a sharp surprise,
And strangled mute, like little gaping snakes,
Dreadfully venomous to him. She lay
Stone-still, and the long darkness flowed away
With muffled pulses. Then, as midnight makes
Her giant heart of Memory and Tears
Drink the pale drug of silence, and so beat
Sleep's heavy measure, they from head to feet
Were moveless, looking through their dead black years,
By vain regret scrawled over the blank wall.
Like sculptured effigies they might be seen
Upon their marriage-tomb, the sword between;
Each wishing for the sword that severs all.
- George Meredith
45 comments:
I would say that the idea of love here is that love is misery, and that if indeed "love is like a flea", it's like a flea that gives you the plague and causes you to die a horrible death. I rather agree; at first, love may be all flowers and sugar, but does it ever end well, hardly ever, most people get divorced or wind up hating their spouse and complaining about being married. Comedians joke all the time about how awful marriage is; it seems that misery and matrimony go hand and hand.
As for 'strange images', the "marriage tomb" is the most obvious, they aren't dead, but they're sure living like they've already died.
"Memory and Tears" likely refers to remembering a time when you were free, not glued to a person you've tried of, and eventually hate.
After reading this poem, I believe that Meredith is protraying the idea that love is death. It brings misery, tears, sorrow, and regrets. From my personal experience I both agree and disagree with this idea. Yes, love does sometimes cause tears, sorrow, misery, and regrets, but not always. There can be happy times, but obiviously just because you love someone doesnt mean that you'll agree on everything and be happy all the time, that's just weird.
The strange image in this poem is Meredith makes you believe that the two people are dead and they ive in a "marriage tomb". He also mentions snakes and darkness, which adds to the creepiness.
The capital words,"Memory and Tears", are refering to what makes her sad. The memories of both good and bad and the tears that this love has brought her.
Deanna,
I agree with mostly everything that you have pointed out, but dont you think that not all love is bad? I mean yeah, some people do divorce, but dont you think that when people are in love there are some happy times too?
For some reason, the more I read this poem, the more I think that one of the two people is about to die and that they think it would be better if they didn’t love each other since it would be less painful.
The concept of modern love? I’m not sure what that means or what is really being asked but I think that love is being presented as something that is more troublesome than is worth the effort of feeling. (Do I make any sense? I’m not sure if I do.) Comparing this to my own concept of love is difficult because I feel that it would depend on how strongly the love felt is.
I find the image of the marriage-tomb and effigies to be strange because of the fact that it doesn’t really make much sense to me. I also don’t think that the “little gaping snakes” part really fits into the rest of the poem. I also don’t understand why the fact that she goes quiet is venomous to him.
I think that Memory and Tears are capitalized because Meredith wanted to put emphasis on it because it’s important. Maybe when he writes, “as midnight makesHer giant heart of Memory and Tears Drink the pale drug of silence” he means that it’s her memories that make her keep silent.
Angelina,
After reading your comment I think that you’re right about the fact that it’s her memories that are the cause of her sadness. I also agree that love comes with both sadness and happiness.
Angie,
I really think that, the Edward-Bella sparkly gooey love fest just isn't realistic. Sure you can have good times with someone and be happy with them, but you will nearly always fall out of love with that person, and if you don't they do, when that happens the sadness afterwards overshadows that by a lot. Love is the root of sadness.
As Deanna and Ange also said, I think that Meredith is comparing love to death and silence. How the sobs shake their bed, and how the silence is a pale drug to be drank, were really melancholy. To the surprise of my fellow students, (probably), I find love sacred. I think that this quote really encompasses how I feel about love: "I love you without knowing how, or when, or from where.I love you straightforwardly, without complexities or pride; so I love you because I know no other way." It's from Pablo Neruda's XVII poem.
The image I found especially strange was "the strangled mute." It just sounds so gruesome and vicious.
The words are capitalized for emphasis and to make the words as a title, common among all people.
Deanna,
I don't think that love is the "root of sadness." Really?! Wouldn't you then also say that happiness is a root of sadness because it's an impossible goal? I don't mean to get too personal, but aren't your parents together? You mentioned how you loved your parents, so I imagine your relationship with them is pretty solid. ALWAYS or nearly always doesn't happen, Deanna. Not everyone's relationship is part of a Twilight novel. People don't always fall out of love.
I think that the poem is saying that love causes hurt and pain. Eve though the people in the poem are in pain they still love each other because it says that her sobs were painful to him. I think this concept of love is close to my own belief that love may hurt sometimes but the pain makes the good times even better.
This poem is definitelty viewing love in a negative way. Meredith is saying that love leads to misery and no good can come from it. When she capitalizes Memory and Tears, I think she is specifically pointing out that the memories of a bad relationship, or a relationship that is no longer good and loving can cause pain and tears. I don't agree with this. Yes, a love gone wrong can cause pain, but not all relationships will end tragically.
Alyssa, Meredith is a guy.
I just realized Meredith is a guy...whoops
Deanna,
The poem didn't specify that the two people were married. It just said that they were in love. You can be in love and not be married. My aunt and uncle were in love for a long time before they got married and they are still just as in love as they were 10 years ago. There are hard times but you work through it and don't give up.
that last comment was me btw...awkies
After reading this peom several times, I get the feeling that there is physical abuse here between a man and his wife from the line "at his hand's light quiver by her head, The strange low sobs that shook their common bed..." He beats her, she sobs because she is hurt, and he comes back into bed with her only to strangle her to keep her from crying. The noise of her crying is poison to him because he doesn't like what he's doing, but he also regrets being with her. This conclusion comes from the line "Were moveless, looking through their dead black years,
By vain regret scrawled over the blank wall"; they don't want to be together, so they are stuck in a marriage that both wishes would just disappear.
Coming from experience, the best thing to do in a situation like this is to take control and leave the realtionship before things get worse and someone really does get hurt. It's not healthy and it's not safe.
"Memory and Tears" most likely means that she's missing the good times they had together, and she cries because she knows she won't get them back because her husband is abusive.
After reading this peom several times, I get the feeling that there is physical abuse here between a man and his wife from the line "at his hand's light quiver by her head, The strange low sobs that shook their common bed..." He beats her, she sobs because she is hurt, and he comes back into bed with her only to strangle her to keep her from crying. The noise of her crying is poison to him because he doesn't like what he's doing, but he also regrets being with her. This conclusion comes from the line "Were moveless, looking through their dead black years,
By vain regret scrawled over the blank wall"; they don't want to be together, so they are stuck in a marriage that both wishes would just disappear.
Coming from experience, the best thing to do in a situation like this is to take control and leave the realtionship before things get worse and someone really does get hurt. It's not healthy and it's not safe.
"Memory and Tears" most likely means that she's missing the good times they had together, and she cries because she knows she won't get them back because her husband is abusive.
In this poem love is portrayed as negative to me; not being worth the time, hurtful, and constricting. The author compares marriage to a tomb basically saying they’re stuck and wish the “sword” would cut off the marriage. I agree yet disagree. When you’re in love but don’t want to be with that person you feel stuck, yet I don’t believe love is as negative as Meredith presents it to be. The images used didn’t really seem strange to me, for each made sense and helped me understand what the author is saying. Usually when words are capitalized the author is emphasizing them, in this case its Memories and Tears. The author is just trying to show the significance of these words and how they relate to his idea of modern love. Overall I believe he thinks Modern love is corrupt and people just marry even if they aren’t truly in love, hence the millions of divorces.
I believe that this is a very dark poem and it's a little weird. It seems that love is not wanted. It is compared to strange things and uncommon objects. Snakes, strangled mute, and dead black years don't sound like very happy comparisions. Obviously someone is not happy here. Love is love but sometimes it can hurt. This poem suggests that it hurts a majority of the time. To me, sure love can hurt sometimes.
Deanna and Ange,
I agree with you translation of the capitalized words. I deffinitely feel some remorse about memories and trying to forget the past.
In this poem, the author portrays love as something that is equivalent to death. This concept of love is not nearly close to mine. I believe that some people find love with the wrong person adn think that it will last, but it really won't. Other people find true love and stay together forever. We've seen this in today's society. Sometime marriages only last for a couple months, but sometimes, nothing can come between the love that a couple shares for eachother. The image of the "marriage tomb" seems strange to me. This is strange because it compares love to death. I also think that the words capitalized are simply for emphasis.
I believe this poem is portraying the image of love as something that is dreadfully painful, yet at the same time its beautiful and wonderful. When the author says "like little gaping snakes, Dreadfully venomous to him" it could mean that every time she cries and a tear falls from her eyes, it makes him sad too and is painful for him to watch.
Modern love, according to Meredith, is a win/lose feeling. You love someone so much you can hardly stand to be without them, yet you are angry and hate them at the same time. Isn't this how marriage is most of the time...?
Each love is different. Depending on the person it could be love and hate and others could it be head over heels in love and not have one single fight at all. For the couple in this poem, they are upset with each other and they both know it, yet they love each other so much they won't give up on it.
Memory and Tears are capitalized because they represent the good times and the bad times. The memories are the good times of them loving each other and being happy with each other and then the tears are from all the arguments and lows in their relationship.
This whole poem is strange and was hard to decipher, but after I read it about 50 times it started to make sense a little, but I have no idea why its so weird.
Collin,
I agree with you. Meredith gives off the impression that marriage is like death. Once you get married your life is over until you die, hence the phrase "'Til death do you part". W=You had said this was strange but, wouldn't you agree that when he says "marriage tomb" he's referring to marriage as a lonely life of cold eternal darkness and ultimately death?
Collin,
Your idea of love being portrayed as death in this poem seems to be right on target. Maybe having a certain understanding of what he is talking about helps? I think that everyone’s experience with love has been different, which would change their view on this poem.
Marissa,
I have to agree with you when you guessed that everyone’s experience of love has given them a different perspective of the poem. =)
Christina,
I really liked your comment. Especially when you said, “Each love is different.” I think it ties in with Marissa’s last comment about everyone’s different experience of love.
"Love" means so many different things to different people its hard to say exactly what love is,or what it's supposed to be, so I agree with Collin
What of "the sword that severs all" ... what do you folks make of that image? What is it, and why are they wishing for it?
Deanna and Angelina mention the "marriage tomb." Do folks who are married, live as if they're already dead?
Mariana writes, "I also don’t understand why the fact that she goes quiet is venomous to him." Anybody want to take a shot at this?
If we accept that the poem gives us an image of a couple in bed, then when are they "looking through their dead black years"?
What is an effigy? How does the image of an effigy help to emphasize the meaning of the poem?
I think that the sword that severs all is death. When I read it, I immediately thought of the Grim Reaper’s scythe coming down between them. Maybe they wish for death because with death they can escape the pain of their broken marriage.
It is my belief that some married couples do live as if they are already dead. I think that those people see marriage as something that ties them down and they, in a way, resent it because of this.
As some of my fellow classmates have already said, I think that “looking through their dead black years” means they are remembering the bad times of their marriage.
An effigy is a model or sculpture of a person. I believe that the image of an effigy helps to emphasize the death element of the piece. This is because most effigies are made of deceased important figures. The poem references the effigies on top of tombs; by referring to themselves as effigies, they are saying that they feel as if they are already dead. Thus emphasizing the meaning of the poem, which is that marriage leads to the death of love.
After reading the poem I think that Meredith is trying to say that love is like death. It brings the same heart aches and pain that death does. For me though love can sometimes be like that. I've never actually loved anyone other then my family, but I've seen the way people in love act. They don't always get along, and there is fighting as usual. But the make each other happy and bring a smile on one anothers face each day.
It is strange that Meredith makes the people in his poem seem dead. He has them living in a "marriage tomb" with the darkness and snakes. Meredith capitalizes "Memory and Tears" to show what makes her upset. She has the good and bad and the tears she cried that this love gave her.
Deanna when you think of the Edward-Bella love of course that isn't true it's a movie kind of love that they portrayed from a book. Some people do feel the same way that Edward and Bella feel they just don't show it the same way. Don't use them as an example when you should be usuing your parents or grandparents. After all these years they're still together and they probably feel the same way that they felt about each other when they first met. And they didn't get a divorce at least your parents didn't. (I don't really know about your grandparents)
Hollis raises an interesting point, and now I've a question. Is it possible for an artist - be it a writer, poet, painter or otherwise - to truly capture the essence of love? ... of any emotion? Why or why not?
Mr. D,
I think that an author can capture what emotions they think comes with love, but it doesnt mean that the way they feel about it is the same for everyone of their readers
Mr. D,
I think that an author can capture what emotions they think comes with love, but it doesnt mean that the way they feel about it is the same for everyone of their readers
This poem seems to say that all love comes to heart break and saddness. Each person wishes for their misery to end. I don't think that all love ends up like this, there are many people who still find themselves to love the person they did many years ago. The "little gaping snakes" were strange in the context, they resembled her silence...atleast I think that's what it is. The capitalized words Memory and Tears are significant to her love for the man. They are held in her heart.
Katie,
Although Meredith doesn’t outright say the couple is married, we as the reader assume it, especially toward the end when he writes, “Upon their marriage-tomb. . .” From the other comments, I would say the majority of us also think that the couple is married.
Brooke,
After reading your comments on how you thought that the woman was being beaten, I re-read the poem and with the thought of it as being an abusive relationship, it seemed like an entirely new poem to me.
Katie,
Although Meredith doesn’t outright say the couple is married, we as the reader assume it, especially toward the end when he writes, “Upon their marriage-tomb. . .” From the other comments, I would say the majority of us also think that the couple is married.
Brooke,
After reading your comments on how you thought that the woman was being beaten, I re-read the poem and with the thought of it as being an abusive relationship, it seemed like an entirely new poem to me.
The concept of Modern Love offered in this poem would be something of a binding contract. It seems as if it's something that isn't entered to willingly and happily, but rather something that has become an unfortunate product of our society. This usage of love does not share many similarities with mine. The concept of love in the poem does not seem to me as the feelings of devotion or affection that we associate with the word love, but rather the institution of marriage. The images of little, gaping, venomous snakes seems an especially strange image to me. This appears to me as a conceit as the snakes can be compared to thoughts or the urge to say something that is held back. This seems so strange because it is used to depict a kind of love, not something usually connected with deadly poisonous things. The words capitalized may be significant because they represent why the definition of modern love is appropriate in this case; they once shared love but it has now become something different, something gloomy, depressing, the author's image of "modern love".
Even though I've read this poem about 10 times, i still have no idea what it means. I can understand parts of it but for some reason i cant get a grasp of what the author's message is. I understand that Meredith is comparing love to unhappiness. The first line gives it away saying that the man knows that his wife sleeps "with waking eyes" meaning that she doesnt sleep well or even not at all. She is unhappy and miserable for some reason. Strange low sobs also show her misery in life. i disagree with this idea because i believe that love creates happiness for two people who are truly in love with each other. There are many strange images such as the "gaping snakes" "marriage tomb" and some others that add a sense of darkness and evilness to the poem. They almost seem like they dont belong here, but after some though i see how the author used them to get his point across to the reader. the words that are capitalized which are memory and tears tell the reader what this woman's heart is full of. Good times and bad times. midnight makes her heart silent when she finally falls asleep.
Mariana, i really like your image of the grim reaper and his scythe between these married people. When i read this i thought of that as well....after the 10th time i read it. The couple wants their marriage to be ended because they are so unhappy, maybe even their lives so they can move on and away from each other.
Mr. D.
The 'sword that severs all' most likely refers to death, so they're lying there, waiting to die so they don't have to be with each other anymore, similar to Peter Boyle's character Frank in 'Everybody Loves Raymond'.
This poem makes love look like sucks and will always end in heart break. I do not agree with this. I think people can be in love forever. Every relationship is going to have its ups and downs but that doesn't mean you don't love someone. The image that the couple is dead seems strange to me because it just seems morbid and like thats all they had was their love for each other. I'm not really sure what the capitilzed letters mean.
I agree with Collin also. Love can't be defined to me. Many of you know that my parents are not married but are together. I don't believe that marriage is love and it really just depends on your own personal experience.
-Mr.Dee
The sword that severs all is the metaphorical sword of death, as everyone has already said. In this particular poem it sems as if they would rather die than continue a life a dull existed punctuated briefly by small unimportant happenings. Some folks do live as if they are dead when they are married, going through daily routines without much changing. In this way they may as well be dead. To the comment Mariana made, the silence is venomous to him because it represents the distance that has come between them over the years as the two no longer have the romantic and loving connection they once had. They are looking through their dead black years when they are recalling the time that they have wasted going through the motions with their partner. Effigies are, as mariana said, "... a model or sculpture of a person.". This emphasizes the meaning of the poem because it visualizes the state that the couple is in after so many years of being attached to the same person for so long. The people have already left their legacy and aren't going to make much of an impact on the world they live in, as if they might of well have already died.
Brandon,
Thanks for answering my comment, including your answer gives the poem more meaning. Also, I don’t understand, what do you mean when you write, “The people have already left their legacy…” what legacy did they leave? Their love?
I agree with Aliah's comment about how love can last forever, all relationships have their ups and downs. When I read this I first thought of The Notebook, yeah it's sappy but it connects. Another thought that comes to mind is that today people are more likely to divorce if they do not believe their marriage is working, which seems to be the case in this poem. Years ago couples would fix a problem if something became broken or damaged, now we are quick to throw that thing out of our lives and start anew.
Deanna,
I love that you compared one of the images in the poem to a television show (Everybody Loves Raymond). It really helps to compare things that we don't really understand to its modern parallel. So, thank you for that comparison because it helped me to further understand the poem.
On another note, I am confused by your first post. Basically what you're saying is that marriage is the same as death, and that you'll end up hating the person you marry. This really disappoints me because you, of all people, whose parents have had such a successful marriage, should be the person to believe in love and marriage. Are these your real feelings, or did you say that hoping to get a reaction?
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