In honor of the holiday I offer this selection from Rudyard Kipling. I won't ask too many leading questions. I'll only say that I'm interested to see what each of you think. I look forward to reading your replies.
“The Vampire”
A fool there was and he made his prayer
(Even as you and I!)
To a rag and a bone and a hank of hair
(We called her the woman who did not care),
But the fool he called her his lady fair
(Even as you and I!)
(Even as you and I!)
To a rag and a bone and a hank of hair
(We called her the woman who did not care),
But the fool he called her his lady fair
(Even as you and I!)
Oh the years we waste and the tears we waste
And the work of our head and hand,
Belong to the woman who did not know
(And now we know that she never could know)
And did not understand.
And the work of our head and hand,
Belong to the woman who did not know
(And now we know that she never could know)
And did not understand.
A fool there was and his goods he spent
(Even as you and I!)
Honor and faith and a sure intent
But a fool must follow his natural bent
(And it wasn't the least what the lady meant),
(Even as you and I!)
Oh the toil we lost and the spoil we lost
And the excellent things we planned,
Belong to the woman who didn't know why
(And now we know she never knew why)
And did not understand.
The fool we stripped to his foolish hide
(Even as you and I!)
Which she might have seen when she threw him aside--
(But it isn't on record the lady tried)
So some of him lived but the most of him died--
(Even as you and I!)
And it isn't the shame and it isn't the blame
That stings like a white hot brand.
It's coming to know that she never knew why
(Seeing at last she could never know why)
And never could understand.
*** STRING IS CLOSED ***
48 comments:
My first question is, are the words in parenthese part of the poem? or like an aside?
Reading the poem without the words in () makes it much easier to read, for me it seems to go faster. I still however cannot figure out what this poem is talking about. Did the lady kill the man and not know why she did it?
I found this poem very heard to understand. Instead of the () healping, they mad me even more confused. I think it is harder to understand because I have nothing to relate to it. Nothing to help me find some connection....this always happens to me.
Now this is a longshot, but the title is "The Vampire", and the whole poem is about a woman and tossing aside a man. One way to look at it is women are bloodsuckers? Also, at some point it seems she might have tried to kill him. Then the poems talks about how some of the man lived but some of him died, this could totally be a tragic break up :)
Like I said, this was a total longshot for me.
South Park? :)
When I first read this the impression I got is some guy doing voodoo on this so called lady. It came across as a guy having a love obsession with this woman who wouldn’t accept him as anything more than a friend. It seems like a typical love obsession where the guy is a fool for thinking the women would ever love him. So then I thought why the title of this is called “Vampire?” So I read it again and I believe it is called “Vampire” because the woman is sucking the life out of this foolish man. She makes him waste away and it is even said, “...some of him lived but most of him died.” The one thing that confuses me is when the narrator says “we.” Who is “we?”
Ange,
I purposly never read anyones post until I write my post because I don't want it to affect what I have to say. But I love how we have the same view about the woman being the vampire or what you said the bloodsucker. Now when you say she tried to kill him do you mean literally? lol
Sophie,
I totally agree with you about ignoring what is in the () to make the poem flow better.I asked ange if she literally thinks the woman tried to kill the man and then I realized you thought almost the same. So do you think she literally killed this guy and why?
I totally get this poem. My explanation somewhat goes along with what Angelina was saying before. Here it goes:
The "Vampire" is a woman. The man, rich in my opinion, wants to shower this woman with gifts. (By the way, the woman isn't an actually vampire or a Cullen.) The woman likes the fact that the man is giving her attention and gifts galore, thinking they are good friends. However, the man thinks the opposite. He feels that since she is accepting his gifts, she is in love with him like he is in love with her. Because the woman doesn't know the man is in love with her, she never objects and the man is too coward to come out and say it. As a result, the man gets "sucked dry" of his money, emotion, and soul because his love is wasted away on this woman who is totally oblivious. The man dies and the woman doesn't know it was because of heart break and sorrow over her. This is why she is called a "vampire" when in fact she is innocent....and stupid.
This makes me think....men need to "man up". Sometimes women are as oblivious as they are when it comes to love. If he had said something to her, maybe she would have let him down gently instead of him dying.
And I don't know why there is a picture of South Park characters. Maybe it's because they're "emo" and look like vampires? Or is it because they're scary looking and its a halloween thing? OR it could be because Mr. Daley just really likes South Park? Hmmm.....
Marissa
To answer your question, I don't really know. I was throwing some ideas out there. I got it from when the poem said she tried to toss him aside. I thought it had something to do with the fact that the man loved this women too, and I was wondering what made yo think that as well?
As a side note, I don't understand what all the () are for. They just confuse me, anyone else?
I think the parentheses ( ) indicate an aside.
Marissa asked an excellent question. Who are the "we" the speaker mentions?
Now some questions ...
Who is the vampire mentioned in the title?
To whom is the speaker of the poem speaking?
What impact - if any - has the line "some of him lived but the most of him died" on our understanding of the poem? I ask as I've always struggled with this line.
Mr D
Like I said before I believe the vampire is the woman because she sucking a part of the man out. This corresponds with the part that says "some of him live but most of him died." This line greatly impacts my idea of the whole poem. It gives me the whole idea of what I had just said about the woman being the vampire.
I dont know who the speaker of the poem is speaking to. Maybe "we" is the women who are speaking to the men? I am just throwing that out there.
OH Mr D!
Quick question...
Can you make a blog so there can be an open dicussion on the essay questions relating to East of Edan?
I think when our class comes together as a whole and brainstorms great things happen.
Similar to Marissa, I believe that the "Vampire" is the women who is sucking the life out of the man. This would explain the "some of him lived, but most of him died." Also, I am not sure to whom the speaker is speaking to.
So is the person doing some kind of voodoo? I feel like the person is worshiping a woman. But she’s not real so all the time and devotion he spent towards her was a waste of time. Instead of living his life he spends it worshiping her and loving her when she isn’t able to reciprocate it because she isn’t real.
But on the other hand this reminds me of Kate and Adam. Especially this part:
“… And the excellent things we planned,
Belong to the woman who didn't know why
(And now we know she never knew why)
And did not understand.
The fool we stripped to his foolish hide
(Even as you and I!)
Which she might have seen when she threw him aside--
(But it isn't on record the lady tried)
So some of him lived but the most of him died—…”
It reminds me of how we know that Kate/Cathy isn’t able to love because she lacks a part of what makes us human. Also it reminds me of how she shoots Adam but it isn’t reported(until later on) and he withdraws so much into himself that he seems to have died.
lol
Christina, I love your Twilight allusion. =)
I definitely agree with all of you guys about the fact that the woman is the Vampire and that it’s easier to read the poem without the () first.
Marissa, you and I had the same idea about the guy doing voodoo and since you’re always right in interpreting things it makes me feel like I’m kind of in the right track. =) I also feel like most of your description of the poem relates to Adam’s life with Cathy.
Adam's life with Cathy ... hmmmmm ... it's almost like your teacher planned it that way ;)
Did anyone notice how in the picture the guy in the middle is holding a book? I think that the connection between the picture and the poem is that the little guy in the picture is reading the poem to the rest of the group. Also, judging from the way they look, I think they picked this poem because it was titled "The Vampire" and they thought it would be scary. Then after they read it, they looked up and the picture captures their reaction to it (the girl with the white hair looks kind of mad).
Does this poem even have anything to do with a vampire? Because it doesn't seem that way to me. The poem, to me, is about a woman, not a vampire.
Sophie,
I agree with you about a couple things. First, as I read the poem, the rhythm was very evident and got faster and faster. I also think that the () may be an aside.
Christina,
I LOVE that you understand this poem and that your explanations make sense to me. I never thought that "the vampire" could be the woman in the poem. When I think of vampires, I see a mental image of Count Dracula and my brain is immediately turned off to a woman being a vampire. Maybe this is because I'm not a woman myself?
Woo hoo I got the whole aside deal!
Marissa,
I first believed that the woman did intentionally kill the man in the poem; however, after reading Christina's post (which I LOVED) it lead me to believe that it may have been an accident. But when I think of the whole vampire theme, maybe she didn't completely kill him. When you quotes "...some of him lived but most of him died" that could mean that she simply turned him into a vampire! 'Cause you know vampires like aren't human..?
Mr. D,
You are one sneaky guy, making links with what you do in class! ;)
Collin -
As I have said, this poem could relate to anything. No matter if it's playing a sport, attempting one's homework, or having a conversation.
Wait wrong blog, my computer's having a meltdown
My first reading of this peom was a failure, so I told myself to come back to it. After coming back to it I still have a limited knowledge of it. Through reading everyone's post I am starting to get more of an idea of what is happening. Thanks Everyone.
I believe this poem is about a man who is in love with a girl and believes they are together. However the girl isn't aware of any of this love and is basically just using him to get what she wants.
Okay so when I first looked at this post I thought that the poem was going to be about South Park because of the picture. Then i read the poem and saw that it wasn't. What I think the poem might be trying to say is that like a vampire a woman could be a "blood sucker." I put the words blood sucker in quotes because I don't actually mean someone who sucks blood. The poet could see women as a race that sucks the life out of men until there's nothing else and then they toss them aside. Some what like what a vampire does to it's human pray.
Sophie I 100 percent agree with you when you say the () didn't help. They deffinetly didn't help me just because I couldn't tell if I should be including those words or not.
Allow me to ask a couple of questions. To whom is the speaker speaking? Who is the "we" mentioned in the poem?
I also think that the poem is talking about women being like "bloodsuckers" and sucking the life out of men. As for the "we" mentioned could it be referring to other man who have been "killed" by the woman?
Hollis,
I took me a couple of tries to finally get a grasp on what I was reading! I think I read the whole thing like 10 times with and without the () to get an understanding ha
Mr. D,
I think when the author say "we" she is refering to us the readers. As we learn outside information that the character does not know. Situational irony?
To all,
Is the speaker of the poem a man or a woman?
Mr. D,
I think that the speaker is a man because he writes, "Oh the years WE waste and the tears WE waste
And the work of our head and hand,
Belong to the WOMAN who did not know..." as in, he is including himself in that catagory by writing we.
I agree with most of you, thinking that the words in () are something totally unrelated to the story. If they are omitted the poem makes more sense and is easier to read.
If the () are left out, i believe that the poem tells of a man who spent all of his time and money on a woman who never even noticed him. He lived his life for her and she didnt really care about him. She controlled his life without knowing it....or did she know? maybe she was so cunning and sneaky that she let him take such good care of her without even acknowledging her.
In the end, he "died" inside because the woman didnt care about him.
I'm still not sure what the lines in () mean but they add something to the poem...im just not sure what that it yet.
I believe that the speaker is a man, because of the words used throughout the entire poem such as " Oh the toil we lost and the spoil we lost
And the excellent things we planned,
Belong to the woman who didn't know why." This gives the idea that the man spends all he has on the woman and receives nothing in return.
I think the "we" referred to are the citizens that live in the setting of the poem.
I reread the poem and I believe the narrator is a man. I can't explain necessarily why, but I do.
I think the speaker is a man, the same reasons Mariana thinks so. So thank you Mariana
To Marianna,
I agree with you, I also thing the speaker is a man.
To Katie,
That's what I thought about the women too. That they are blooksuckers
The paranthesis' made this much harder to understand. When reading it without them i could understand it a little bit more... And then i read everyones' posts and understood it completely.
I see that it is a man narrorating, and he is speaking about a women who he is in love with but she takes everything he has out of him.
Collin, I agree that it narrator was a man for an unexplainable reason. It just sounds like a man to me as well
I think the narrator is a man because it's like he is explaining what happens when men get involved with women. Also, I think it's a man because he says "(Even as you and I)" like he knows what happens from experience.
After reading this I was instantly reminded of Cathy from East of Eden. Being with a man, but coldly, while he blindly loves her, then she tosses him aside with out a hint of remorse. She even did it all for Adam's money like the vampire in the poem. She is the vampire.
Katie,
You explained it perfectly!!!
Everyone! That's what I was thinking.
To Mr. Daley:
I think the narrator is a man; the poem seem to carry the tone of male friend when just saw his best friend made a fool of by a women. The narrator seems to put the woman in a category other then his own, like they nothing in common including gender.
I think the narrator is a man. Going back to my original comment, women use men and "suck them dry." Therefore, the narrator is talking about a personal experience he had with a soul sucking she-vampire (aka a woman).
Another reason I believe the speaker is a man is simply because the poem gives off the feeling that woman use men for their own good, being called a blood sucker isn't generally something woman appreciate so why would they say that about themselves?
This poem really seems to me as the relationship between Adam Trask and Cathy Ames. While the man is toiling away, the man is planning great things, the man is spending his money on her because he loves her, the women never loves him back and never understands. As in the ending of the relationship between Adam and his wife, she casts Adam aside as soon as she had what she wanted from him. Adam has the life sucked out of him as if she was a "Vampire" and is a shell of himself, or, "stripped to his foolish hide." Lastly, the worst hurt of all is knowing that she never knew why and would never feel the same love. The comments in the parenthesis honestly did make it easier for me. Even if this is just me digging for meaning when there isn't much to find, the asides are meant to get across the message that this happens to everyone.
Mr.Daley... really a picture from the Twilight episode?
I think the speaker is a man. His experiences with obsessing with women and his asides in parnthesis make it fairly clear to me that he is a man.
I think this poem is about a man who is a fool because he is in love with a woman who does not love him back. He wasted a lot of time and energy trying to make her love him, but she never did. He is devastated because he could not make her share his feelings. Some of him died because he was heart broken. I think it is called "The Vampire" because the love that the man has for this woman is sucking all the life out of him. He is completely consumed with his love for this woman and the man is completely dependent on this woman loving him back.
Sophie, it definitely did help to read the poem without reading the words in parentheses.
Christina, I completely agree with your interpretation about the man showering the women with gifts and the women keeping him in the friend zone.
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