Much of the discussion we'll have in regard to East of Eden will focus on the concepts of good and evil. As such, I feel a much more generalized discussion about right and wrong is necessary. To that end, read the following paragraph. After you've had a few moments to think about what you've read, write a response in which you reply to the questions at the end of the paragraph. Once you've written an original response you may then respond to each other. For the record, I am expecting you folks to engage in a solid debate without much prompting from me.
A trolley has been sabotaged by a demented English teacher, and is running out of control down a track. On the trolley are five people who will die if they jump or the trolley is not somehow stopped. Fortunately, you are standing next to a switch that when thrown will change the tracks on which the trolley rides, and lead the car onto an unused track where it is sure to slow to a stop. Unfortunately, there is one person standing on that track. She will die if you throw the switch. What do you do? What is the right choice?
Mmmmm ... fried noggin.
*** STRING IS CLOSED ***
*** STRING IS CLOSED ***
48 comments:
I would throw the switch. I don't want to die, and it's only human nature to do anything you can to prevent harm to yourself. Yes, it is wrong to kill someone, but I would not be intentionally trying to kill them, I would be trying to save five people's lives. Also, I don't understand why someone would be standing on tracks. If you are just standing on tracks, then it seems like you're waiting to get hit.
That seems easy enough. If five people lose there live to save one, that is a net waste of four lives; flip the switch. If it was just me on the trolly, I would die for the other person; I have no idea if they are a firefighter who risks his life to save people, or a child, I would give them the benefit of the doubt and I wouldn't hesitate to die for them.
"... that is a net waste of four lives; flip the switch." It's a simple question of mathematics? By that logic we kill 100 to save 1000. Maybe 1000 to save 100,000? What if the person standing on the tracks were a child or a pregnant woman? Is it still a question of math?
Either choice seen here has someone at risk of their life. Basically you would have to narrow your choices down, as to which one makes more sense. To me the obvious answer is flipping the switch. I believe this because it is one life vs. 5, and the person on the track has a better chance of living; if they are able to move in time. Another conclusion is that this decision would have to be made real quickly. We all know that humans are animals and we have a natural instinct to protect ourselves. Even if the choice is wrong it would most likely be made anyways.
To answer Mr. D, there are so many factors that could make one change their mind. If you really think about it though, is are these thoughts going through your mind during this situation? The facts that would be apparent to you are one life against four others and yourself. At the split moment that would seem to be the most logic decision whether one thinks it’s right or wrong.
As to what Mr. D said, it is a question of mathematics. I remember being angry when I saw the first Saw movie because the guy who was running the game with the two main characters, was going to kill a family of four to save himself. I couldn't imagine someone wanting to trade four lives for one. It makes it seem like he believed his life was worth more than four others, that he was better. I would die to save four people or even one.
Interesting point you raise Deanna. Is any one life worth more than another? What if the one person on the tracks were a child? ... a pregnant woman? ... a felon? What if the five people on the trolley were children, middle aged men, or elderly women?
And everyone please read the scenario carefully. Nowhere does it read that you are on the trolley.
To answer Mr. D, what if the pregnant woman gave birth to a criminal? What if the felon was wrongly convicted? It would be hard to tell, all of these factors would play a part; someone might be younger with a longer life ahead of them than someone else, but it would make a difference if they were a murderer, or what have you. So all things considered it would be best to just say save the five, and kill the one, as you really don't have time to consider all these things or start a debate on a blog if you are moments away from death.
Okay then, since Mr. Daley pointed out that I would not be on the trolley, but next to the switch then I wouldn't be as panicked and would actually be able to at least process what is happening. Honestly, if I was on that trolley I would probably either be throwing up or crying, or laughing uncontrollably (I say laughing because I’m an extremely weird person and when I’m very nervous or don’t know what to do and panic my reaction is to start laughing). Or maybe I would be throwing up and laughing and crying all at the same time. But since I’m not on the trolley, I would run to the person who is standing on the tracks, push them out of the way, and flip the switch (or flip the switch, then run to the person). If I don’t have the time to run and tackle the person standing on the tracks to get them out of the way, I would shout out to the person to “MOVE OUT OF THE WAY or DIE!” while waving my arms around to get their attention and signaling to the on-coming trolley. Then, I would hope for the best and flip the switch.
I really hate to say this but I think I would throw the switch. I really don't look forward to dying so I would do anything to make sure that I stayed alive. That person on the other tracks I would feel bad for but maybe he or she shouldn't be walking on trolly tracks, because they would never know when a trolly would come and possibly hit them. Plus I really don't want to die!
Marissa that's a really good point! I didn't even think about the fact that the person on the track could have time to move. Plus the trolly could have slowed down enough to not have a fatal effect on them
To me, the situation varies. It all depends on who that one person on the track is and who those five people on the trolley are. If it were a single family member on the track, I would not throw the switch. Also, if it were five felons on the trolley I would throw the switch. However if the situations were flipped and my family was on the trolley and a felon was on the track I would throw the sitch immediately.
Abby, you bring up an interesting point, but I guess we wouldn't get to know that, we couldn't pull up their life story as we careened out of control.
I have a question for everyone, what if the four people were on the track, and it was just you on the trolley?
Abby, I think your honesty is admirable. I also think you've given us the opportunity to revisit a point that Deanna raised.
Is it possible for us to judge another person's worth, and if so, what forms the basis of that judgement?
Good question Deanna, but I wonder ...
By interjecting ourselves into the situation do we invoke our instincts toward self preservation? How many of us could resist those instincts? How many of us might like to suggest that we would do the noble thing when we know in our hearts that we could not make such a sacrifice?
Deanna,
If I was the only person on the trolley then how would I be able to throw the switch? Isn’t the switch outside of the speeding trolley? But if I DID have the power to throw the switch and there were four people on the tracks. . . I honestly have no idea what I would do . . . However, the more I think about it, the more I realize that I would be scared to death and not even be able to think. So I don’t believe I would even realize that there would be a way to save myself by throwing the switch. But if I did know about it and did end up throwing the switch and ended up killing those people . . . I would never be able to live with myself afterwards. I would realize later that I had absolutely no right to kill those people. If I was on that trolley, then it was probably my time to go. I believe that I would spend the rest of my life regretting my decision to throw the switch.
So to answer Mr. Daley, no I don’t think I’d be able to fight my instincts to save myself. However, I would spend the rest of my life regretting that decision.
To answer Mr. Daley's question, “Is it possible for us to judge another person's worth, and if so, what forms the basis of that judgement?” I don't believe that anyone can judge another’s worth. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but what follows is my personal belief. I’m aware of the fact that different people have different views on certain subjects. Everyone is free to believe what they may and I am not forcing my views on anyone. (So if you do continue to read this, please don’t feel as if I’m trying to convert you or anything.) I believe that only God can determine who gets to live because He was the one who gave us our lives in the first place. However, He also gave us the freedom to make our own decisions. So there are some people who make the choice to take another’s life. People who make such decisions will have to face the consequences for their actions both here on Earth and beyond. So if I do, hypothetically speaking, end up killing anyone by flipping the switch I fully expect to be judged accordingly.
Mariana, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a student expressing his or her faith in this forum. It is perfectly appropriate if that faith informs one's experience and one's thoughts. Do not be an apologist for believing in something.
That having been said, I wonder if it is possible for anyone not to judge other people. We choose our friends, don't we? Don't we make judgements about people when we choose who to befriend? Don't we judge people with whom we compete? On what basis do we form those judgements? How about our classmates, our teachers, or our family?
I submit that we are constantly engaged in the process of estimating people's worth. I'm willing to bet that everyone in my period 11 AP English class has made judgements about me. What do you think? Would the situation on the tracks be any different?
Deanna,
That is a good point, we never really could know whho the people were. To answer the original question I will have to say save the five people riding the train rather then the one person.
Mr. D,
It is very much possible to judge a persons worth. To judge, however, we would need to know that persons life compared to another. Many people have hidden things in their lives, that us common people can't see. Based on those things would be a persons fate.
As a general statement to what just about everyone has said, i don't think it even matters who is on the trolley or who isn't. No one person's life is anymore valuable than another so you can't make a decision based on who that person is. Reading the situation, i believe that the people who are on the trolley are totally unknown to you and that you know nothing about them except that they might die if you don't save their lives. Everyone obviously has their own opinion and view on the situation as Mariana said, but if i was in the situation, whether i was on the train or not, i think i would pull the switch and save the five peoples lives over the one on the tracks.
For some reason it won't let me post this so i'll do it anonymously and this is Jarrett
I would not throw the switch that would change the trolley's tracks. My best reasoning for this is that I do not think that I'd be able to live knowing that I killed someone who would not otherwise have been killed. The five people on the speeding trolley were most likely aware that they were going to die, while the girl thought that she was going to live.
Hollis-
You're right! Maybe the girl should never have been walking on the trolley tracks in the first place. I never thought of it like that, but I think that if the people on the trolley were meant to die, they should. Flipping the switch would mean interfering with fate.
My first thought would be to just flip the switch and try to get the person who is standing on the tracks to move out of the way. After I think about who these people on the trolley may be I have second thoughts on if I would prefer to save them or perhaps the person standing on the tracks. There is also the thought of how close the trolley is, and how much time I have to think about my decision. I would have to mainly agrees with Abby's statement.
"Flipping the switch would mean interfering with fate."
Interesting perspective Collin, but I wonder if we can make that argument.
In choosing to act (throw the switch), you have made a choice. In choosing not to act (refusing to throw the switch), you've still made a choice. How can we argue that the accident is the fault of fate when either way you've had a hand in how it plays?
What do you think?
I like Collin's insight to the situation, where it would not be pleasant to know that you are responsible for killing that single person on the tracks. It may be right to save a persons life, but it could also be wrong for causing the death of another.
I would flip the switch. I would rather 5 people live and lose the one person than losing 5 lives. And if I were the person standing on the tracks I would want someone to flip the switch even if I was going to die.
About the whole fate thing, I think that fate and free will can't both exist at the same time. When you make a choice isn't it your 'fate' to make that choice? Do any of us really have a choice about anything?
I choose to frequent this blog. Other people choose to ignore this blog. ;)
I think Mr.D is right Collin no matter what you choose you aren't letting fate take it's choice. All I know though is that I would do anything to change fate if it had to do with me dying!
Sorry it took me so long to comment on the blogs...I've been really sick and missed school today!
But honestly, I would flip the switch. You all know that old saying, right, the one that goes something like, with every death comes a new life? Well, maybe since that one girl died on the tracks, a new baby would be born in that second. But then again, if all the people on the trolley died, I guess that would have to mean five new lives? I don't think it can happen that way. I believe in the give one-take one statistic. And the whole fate thing-obviously someone up there wanted you to flip that switch and save five people's lives, otherwise, tbat girl wouldn't be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Things happen in life, good or bad, and you have to deal with them in your own way. So I would flip the switch, and save five people, if it were MY fate.
But I know where you're coming from, Collin. I wouldn't want blood on my hands either. But with five to one, you have to make a decision at one point, and losing five people would be more difficult than one.
I don't think we really have the right to judge one persons worth over another persons. However, I think innocence is a factor. Like when Mr.D asks if it were a felon or a pregnant woman.
Personally, without making the relation to the people personal, I would flip the switch. As many point out, 5 people dead is "worse" than 1 person.
Collin!
I love your different perspective: interfering with fate. I would have never thought of that.
EVERYONE!!!-
While Mr. D and Hollis are right that either way, you have a hand in how fate plays, fate controls everything. I'm not sure if I believe in fate or not, but for the sake of argument, I'm going to pretend that I believe in fate more than I actually do.
Whether or not the switch was flipped, fate was already decided. If you chose to flip the switch, it was your fate. If you chose not to flip the switch, it also could have been your fate. Fate is the outcome of a situation, even if you must make choices that you think are influencing fate.
Collin, That's exactly what I was trying to say but I don't think it came out as well as yours did.
I completly agree with you collin and hollis. Every choice you make is already decided by fate.
I don't know how I feel about the whole fate thing, I guess I would have to agree that every choice you make has already been decided by fate. Anyway, I think that I would throw the switch because I do not know the lives of any of these people, so my first thought would be to sacrifice one life in order to save five.
Is it a choice if one is fated or destined to make that choice? Aren't the two ideas antithetical? Let's remember our class discussion from last week. Didn't the vast majority of the class suggest that people could choose between right and wrong, good or evil?
I don't really think that fate has anything to do with this because like Mr. D said, whatever you decision is your "fate" no matter what you choose. I think its just a simple question of saving 5 peoples lives over one and no matter what, you have to deal with it for the rest of your life. I think it would be "easier" (if thats the right word) to see one family "suffer" rather than 5 families due to my actions so i would still flip the switch.
Clearly you have a choice, and I agree with Jarrett, it's a choice and most people would do what is seen as the "right" choice and flip the switch. I believe fate is not set in stone and one's actions can easily alter their fate. If you don't like something that is happen, can't you even try, at the least, to change that situation for it to have a different outcome? A reason for flipping the switch or not could also be personal. For example, if you didn't know any of the five people on one track, but DID know that one person on the other, wouldn't you feel obligated to save that one person? Either way, you have the choice. Assuming I didn't know any of the people in this situation, I think I would feel obligated to pull the switch and save the five lives as opposed to one.
Everyday you tempt fate. The throwing of the switch, or not throwing the switch tempts fate no matter what. If you throw it that girls fate is tested and if you don't it still is. What if her original fate was to get run over by the trolley? This could be the same situation for the five riders of the trolley.
I believe fate is tempted everyday in every situation of life.
I would talk to the people on the trolly to see the majority of the vote and see how many would rather die than kill someone else. Im not the only one on the trolly so why is it just my decision? Either way I would be killing innocent people so why not consult in possible victims.
I'd like to go back to Mr. D's comment extremely early in this blog about if the one person was pregnant or a child. Well, what if that one person was a serial killer or a certified crazy person? What if there was somneone like that on the trolly? That would change my decision on whether or not to pull the switch.
Collin, i agree with your concept about fate. Fate is something that is already determined and chosen before you even make a decision.
This reminds me of the Batman movie "Dark Knight" when the Joker give both boats a detinator for the opposite boat and make them choose to blow up the other or not. Self preservation versus self sacrifice.
Abby makes a good point, whether or not it was a family member or not in either position would influence my decision. If it was one of my sisters on the track, I could easily kill everyone in the trolley. I mean, if a family members life was placed in my hands, then its because I would make the choice to save them. That's fate, they were meant to be saved. But if I didn't know any of the people involved, I think I would have to save the lives of the five people. If I didn't have a personal connection to any of the people, I don't think I could live with killing five people.I would feel like choosing the one would be worse because it took more lives.
Nine out of ten times I would flip the switch, but it obviously would differ on the character of the people who would be saved and the one that would die. It's all really circumstantial since, I honestly don't think every person's life is equal. With that said, that's my decision on whether to flip the switch but I would be more interested in finding that english teacher and making sure that he died in some ironic manner.
Christina it seemed to me like this decision had to be made fairly quickly, so I'm just wondering how you were planning on asking the people on the trolly whether or not they wanted to live? Also, who would really say, "no, I'd rather die."
I would throw the switch. I would want to save as many people as i possibly could. Even though it would be a hard decision to make i would have to save more people. Its impossible to escape guilt being forced to make such a hard decision. And why is the women even on the tracks?
Abby also makes a good point. I believe in fate to a certain extent but i also believe that people have a lot of control over situations also.
Post a Comment